The monger experience: race relations, community, and obligations

This subject came up many times on SH and it never ended well.

Prejudice is alive and well.

If you put this subject into prospective, you will realize that it takes a VERY long time for minds to change. Generations worth!!!! If you see where we were in my youth to where we are now, you would be amazed. Did it take 30 years, absolutely, but it will continue to get better.

50 shades of prejudice, what shade are you. Understanding your prejudice and the feasible prejudice of other people is the first step in helping the overall prejudice in this country will help.

Phantomkid, I am so glad to see you are willing to continue improving society instead of being the cranky old man who says things will never change. By starting this thread, you have started the process of healing minds.

For providers, your effort will absolutely be more difficult than that of a white, mature, rich, handsome, intelligent, gentleman such as myself.

Dress like me
talk like me
tip like me
build up references so the providers you have not met will be able to verify you as an individual rather than you as a strange black man.

PS, please, please, please do not turn into that cranky old black man who thinks everyone is prejudice on a scale of 50.

This has been a very bad week. I had five different indies reject me during the screening process because of my race. To the many of you who helped me connect with these ladies, NO NAMES should be mentioned. In fact, I would like that rule of no names to be here for anyone who replies to this. I am not interested in a flame war, witch hunt, or public shaming. This is meant to be a civil discussion on experiences people have had and any solutions that anyone has come up with. I will have my experience down below along with some questions. These questions are open to everyone since I think we all have some different insights we can give.

To me it seems that there are two reasons why indies say no to non-whites. The first reason is because of ‘personal choice’ as they say. In other words, they choose to not service non-whites strictly as a point of preference. Now I don’t want to be too dismissive about this rational, but I don’t really think it holds water. From a purely economic perspective if you are in the services industry the only color you should see is green and whoever provides the green, assuming all else equal of course (e.g. respectful, pass screening process, have actual money, etc.), should be just as valid as any other person. Economics though is a social science theorem predicated on the idea of rational minds. In other words, if people were perfectly rational individuals what I just said before would be the case. We all know that they are not. Meaning there must be another factor that is causing them to say no, an irrational factor to lead them to their ‘personal choice’. And that cause, I have found, is fear. Maybe because of watching too much breaking bad or bad tv stations these indies have become afraid of non-whites and want to avoid doing business with them. This is the more annoying one since that fear makes everyone worse off. The provider makes less money, the monger has less options, and everyone wastes time trying to find the right match.

The second reason is experience. Three of the indie women I talked too cited previous bad experience as their reason for not doing business with non-whites. Now this one I am a lot more sensitive to even if I still at the end disagree. We have a natural instinct to equate behavior with physical attributes, its basic human psychology and it is a painfully biased habit of ours at that. So, two bad experiences with black clients might lead to an indie saying no to future black clients. Meanwhile five bad experiences with white clients (or whatever the race of the indie is) may not lead to the same result. Again, and I really want to emphasize this: THIS IS NOT A CONCIOUS CHOICE. This is the human brain at its worst, a machine which spent millennia learning to quickly equate anything that does not look like you as being some sort of dangerous is not going to be able to quickly acclimate to the last few decades of social change. I get that and even more I feel for the women who have been in any way wronged by a fellow monger, regardless of their race.

So, my questions: what can be done about this? How does someone convince someone else to not allow their baser instincts to take root? Should we even try? Do we as a community have some sort of role to play in keeping our fellow mongers in check? Should we warn indies on the notoriety of a fellow member if we don’t think he is safe? Should we forewarn members if an indie does not take on certain clients? Or should we not play any role as a jury towards the private interactions of two individuals? Finally, is it fair for indies to reject men strictly because of their race? I obviously don’t think so, but I am clearly biased. I just don’t think that the worst of us should define all of us. Thoughts?

Don't leave me in suspense @dancingpink what did you do next??

and therefore now declines to accept customers from the group that caused problems at a higher rate?

and therefore now declines to accept customers from the group that caused problems at a higher rate?

And you just entered the room as the poster child for white privilege. You were on to something until the last paragraph or two of that diatribe.

Bucki, there are many privileged white men on these boards. I just happened to stand up and acknowledge it. YES, I HIT THE LIFE LOTTERY, I was born the correct race, at the correct time in history, in the greatest country in the world (in my life time), in one of the most expensive areas in the country and the icing on the cake is intelligence, acceptable looks and a killer work ethic. There is absolutely no argument from me that I am a PRIVILEGED WHITE MAN.

I have a coworker who is as BLACK as charcoal. He was born the wrong race, in the wrong country at the absolute wrong time but that man has amazing intellect and amazing work ethic and guess what, he is more successful than I am. Do I resent this man for impinging on my white privilege? NOPE, I admire and love the guy like a brother and am SO FUCKING THANKFUL THIS COUNTRY IS WHAT IT IS. I have many more stories about middle eastern men, asian men and african men who are in this country living the dream.

If I offended all those who have grown bitter with my DIATRIBE!!!!! HAHAHAHA, I really wish I could say I am sorry, but I cannot. You cannot accept racism whether it was created over a lifetime of subtle negative events or a single traumatic event. You need to look in your heart and remove any form of hatred and bias before you can ever ask another single person to do so.

Phantom, I understand you have lived thru negative events as a black man. I truly am sorry if I personally have ever caused a negative event in your life. Please keep your mind open as you currently have and you will help improve race relationships in this country.

Regardless of race anyone who can afford to regularly see 200 to 300 dollar an hour escorts is privileged in the larger scheme of things. First you are privileged to live in a rich country. Then you are privileged to have enough disposable income when many from all races can't afford it even in rich countries.

This has been a very bad week. I had five different indies reject me during the screening process because of my race. To the many of you who helped me connect with these ladies, NO NAMES should be mentioned. In fact, I would like that rule of no names to be here for anyone who replies to this. I am not interested in a flame war, witch hunt, or public shaming. This is meant to be a civil discussion on experiences people have had and any solutions that anyone has come up with. I will have my experience down below along with some questions. These questions are open to everyone since I think we all have some different insights we can give.

To me it seems that there are two reasons why indies say no to non-whites. The first reason is because of ‘personal choice’ as they say. In other words, they choose to not service non-whites strictly as a point of preference. Now I don’t want to be too dismissive about this rational, but I don’t really think it holds water. From a purely economic perspective if you are in the services industry the only color you should see is green and whoever provides the green, assuming all else equal of course (e.g. respectful, pass screening process, have actual money, etc.), should be just as valid as any other person. Economics though is a social science theorem predicated on the idea of rational minds. In other words, if people were perfectly rational individuals what I just said before would be the case. We all know that they are not. Meaning there must be another factor that is causing them to say no, an irrational factor to lead them to their ‘personal choice’. And that cause, I have found, is fear. Maybe because of watching too much breaking bad or bad tv stations these indies have become afraid of non-whites and want to avoid doing business with them. This is the more annoying one since that fear makes everyone worse off. The provider makes less money, the monger has less options, and everyone wastes time trying to find the right match.

The second reason is experience. Three of the indie women I talked too cited previous bad experience as their reason for not doing business with non-whites. Now this one I am a lot more sensitive to even if I still at the end disagree. We have a natural instinct to equate behavior with physical attributes, its basic human psychology and it is a painfully biased habit of ours at that. So, two bad experiences with black clients might lead to an indie saying no to future black clients. Meanwhile five bad experiences with white clients (or whatever the race of the indie is) may not lead to the same result. Again, and I really want to emphasize this: THIS IS NOT A CONCIOUS CHOICE. This is the human brain at its worst, a machine which spent millennia learning to quickly equate anything that does not look like you as being some sort of dangerous is not going to be able to quickly acclimate to the last few decades of social change. I get that and even more I feel for the women who have been in any way wronged by a fellow monger, regardless of their race.

So, my questions: what can be done about this? How does someone convince someone else to not allow their baser instincts to take root? Should we even try? Do we as a community have some sort of role to play in keeping our fellow mongers in check? Should we warn indies on the notoriety of a fellow member if we don’t think he is safe? Should we forewarn members if an indie does not take on certain clients? Or should we not play any role as a jury towards the private interactions of two individuals? Finally, is it fair for indies to reject men strictly because of their race? I obviously don’t think so, but I am clearly biased. I just don’t think that the worst of us should define all of us. Thoughts?

This has been a very bad week. I had five different indies reject me during the screening process because of my race.

And that Finally, is it fair for indies to reject men strictly because of their race? I obviously don’t think so, but I am clearly biased. I just don’t think that the worst of us should define all of us. Thoughts?

I have heard the same thing from some AMP girls (not all, but some). They typically avoid the gory details, but in the case of the South Asians (Indian, Pakis) the issues seems to be poor tipping (even non-payment) and bad body odor. In the case of AAs, it can be tipping issues and/or perceived bad behavior.

Why does the same thing not happen with Whites? Probably because Whites are so large a percentage of the AMP customer base that it would be economic suicide to reject customers just for being White. Also, a large percentage of Whites are not problematic; their business model would fail otherwise. I'm sure individual White men who exhibit bad qualities are likewise banned. However, unlike the other minority groups, Whites usually get the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes this is called "White privilege". Much as I don't like that term, it fits sometimes.

Indies are obviously different from AMPs. They are usually totally alone with the client and much more vulnerable, so they have to be a lot more careful. One wrong decision could end them. Looked at from that perspective, it's hard to criticize them for not following their gut. Any man (White or otherwise) who seems off on the phone or texting will be rejected. Indies will pretend not to be home if they don't like the looks of the person who shows up. It's a snap decision based on very superficial characteristics.

This may sound racist to some, but my best advice to AAs would be to look & act as non-threatening as possible and maybe offer to pay up front. Try to put their provider's mind at ease. If that sounds unreasonable, then look for someone more accommodating.

Is it fair that AAs may have to do this and Whites don't? No, its not. But life isn't always fair.