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hey guys lets tone it down
- Thread starter firr
- Start date
I am not at all shocked that they DO, but I find it hypocritical to talk about separation of church and state, but really mean "keep those crackpot religions that I don't believe in under control". Judeo-Christian? That is not true. It is more correctly stated as certain strands of European Protestantism--largely the Germanic/Dutch versions. A large number of the signers and drafters were Dists who generally believed that there is a god, god created the universe, and then left us to our own devices. Not a god that then established a bureaucratic church and divinely inspired hundreds of rules for how we act. I have no problem with "Thou shalt not kill", but I have serious problems with a closet homosexual pedophile minister claiming to make it illegal if I pick up a 40 year old woman and have sex with her--whether or not I pay her.
And you talk about "big government" as the evil--so you should be AGAINST people telling me when I can buy a bottle of wine, AGAINST making sex work illegal, AGAINST making church bingo illegal, AGAINST persecuting homosexuals just because they are homosexuals, AGAINST keeping marijuana illegal, AGAINST legislating many things that have no basis other than RELIGEOUS ones.
Practice all the religious restraints you wish--I would never force drinking or sex or gambling or marijuana, or homosexuality on anyone--and I don't even partake in many of those myself--but I find it amazingly hypocritical that "conservative SMALL government supporters" wish to LEGISLATE all those things on others. That is EXACTLY the kind of "big government" you claim to abhor. Why don't you?
And you talk about "big government" as the evil--so you should be AGAINST people telling me when I can buy a bottle of wine, AGAINST making sex work illegal, AGAINST making church bingo illegal, AGAINST persecuting homosexuals just because they are homosexuals, AGAINST keeping marijuana illegal, AGAINST legislating many things that have no basis other than RELIGEOUS ones.
Practice all the religious restraints you wish--I would never force drinking or sex or gambling or marijuana, or homosexuality on anyone--and I don't even partake in many of those myself--but I find it amazingly hypocritical that "conservative SMALL government supporters" wish to LEGISLATE all those things on others. That is EXACTLY the kind of "big government" you claim to abhor. Why don't you?
Separation of church and state is a phrase written by Jefferson in a letter to some Baptist ministers, it cannot be found anywhere in the Constitution. In recent times it has been bastardized by courts and others hostile to religion and used as a bludgeon to remove all vestiges of religious expression from the public square. It was meant to underscore the need for the freedom OF RELIGION, rather than freedom FROM RELIGION. The founders and Jefferson himself would be appalled. Look, I not not a libertarian (although most conservatives have a libertarian streak in them) or an anarchist, (just like most of the rest of the country)---do whatever we want and fuck the consequences to society. We have liberty but it is ordered liberty. We have time tested traditions and virtues that have been passed down from generation to generation by human experience through the centuries---and many of our laws reflect that. We abandon these moral constraints and duties for a "if it feels good, do it' ethos at our peril.
So they escaped and formed the US so they could make others keep the sabbath (the Sunday version only, not the Friday or Saturday versions), keep heathen drinkers under control by telling me I can't buy wine while they are in church, and put bible quotes as questions on a biology exam.
Yes, that kind of freedom of religion. Just like the christian churches that wanted a law preventing a hindu temple from being visible from their church--THAT "freedom"?
Yes, that kind of freedom of religion. Just like the christian churches that wanted a law preventing a hindu temple from being visible from their church--THAT "freedom"?
For a guy who claims his politics 'leans to the right' I have never heard anyone so hostile to religion in all my life (despite the denials). I love his quote "I am not anti-religious at all"---then what follows is post after post of diatribes and nitpicking every little blip and obscure proposal ever made by a Christian. Then telling others what laws THEY should support, whether it violates their own moral code or not. Mixing up extreme libertarianism with constitutional conservatism all along the way.
