Moderna or Pfizer or J&J?

[Doubleyellow]

What is your objective here? You have written your story. Your responses are highly charged with a a slow reveal-agenda.

When someone disagrees, you accuse them of not doing a deep dive on the subject, not understanding the subject matter as well as you, or you toss out orthogonal arguments related to political ideologies (libertarianism) and and claim you are knee deep in a fight with a bunch of ‘karen’s’ who have invaded your personal space. Your decision on which vaccine is ’best’ sums up your level of ‘subject matter expertise’.

Some of your theories are naive, in particular your thoughts on the evolutionary advantages of viral mutations, but none of us are bringing that up, we don’t really care.

We get it, you don’t want the vaccine (unless you suddenly do) and your decision was arrived at based on your google grasp of the subject matter, the fact that your physician ‘smiled‘ at you when you unloaded on him your substantial reasons for exercising your freedoms, and your 85 year old ‘health worker’ dad with a bad ticker said the news is full of B.S, as if that is a revelation.

so what is your point?

here is mine, thank you for sharing your thoughts initially, you made your decision. Your posts smell political. I am out of here.





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[Indra]

4.2 million is the official figure in India itself. Unofficial figures are twice that much. Then we have other 200 countries … covid is 100 years after spanish flu. We have better everything … I am not saying that you don’t know what you are talking about. I am saying Partial knowledge is more dangerous and can lead to false conclusions. 1250 doctors died in India. How many does the flu kill?

 

[Plat122]

4.2 million is the official figure in India itself. Unofficial figures are twice that much. Then we have other 200 countries … covid is 100 years after spanish flu. We have better everything … I am not saying that you don’t know what you are talking about. I am saying Partial knowledge is more dangerous and can lead to false conclusions. 1250 doctors died in India. How many does the flu kill?

Actually during the Spanish flu, in the United States, a huge number of health care workers contracted the virus and died. That was a problem when you first line health care workers were taken out. Also, the lack of hospital space was huge. It was so bad in some places you didn’t have coffins for the dead. The way out was to wash your hands, social distancing and wear a mask. A century later the way to deal with a viral pandemic like this is social distancing, wash your hands and wears a mask, but thanks to our advance in technology we have vaccines.

medroogies’ argument falls short on a number of levels. Starting with a one percent fatality rate for a highly transmissible virus is huge with a capital H. Yes 90 percent how contract it will be just fine with no or mild symptoms. Some will be very sick and some will have long term problems, but a huge number of people will die. In a normal flu season you don’t have refrigerated trucks behind hospitals acting as overflow morgues. When Europeans came to the Americas we brought small pox and measles. The people here had to fight a people more advanced them while these illnesses were collapsing their societies.

To argue that more people getting the virus will limit mutation is a complete false hood. I have never been in the health care field and I understand that. The best for the current pandemic is wash your hands, social distance and this time everyone on Earth gets the vaccine.

 

[medroogies]

Actually during the Spanish flu, in the United States, a huge number of health care workers contracted the virus and died. That was a problem when you first line health care workers were taken out. Also, the lack of hospital space was huge. It was so bad in some places you didn’t have coffins for the dead. The way out was to wash your hands, social distancing and wear a mask. A century later the way to deal with a viral pandemic like this is social distancing, wash your hands and wears a mask, but thanks to our advance in technology we have vaccines.

medroogies’ argument falls short on a number of levels. Starting with a one percent fatality rate for a highly transmissible virus is huge with a capital H. Yes 90 percent how contract it will be just fine with no or mild symptoms. Some will be very sick and some will have long term problems, but a huge number of people will die. In a normal flu season you don’t have refrigerated trucks behind hospitals acting as overflow morgues. When Europeans came to the Americas we brought small pox and measles. The people here had to fight a people more advanced them while these illnesses were collapsing their societies.

To argue that more people getting the virus will limit mutation is a complete false hood. I have never been in the health care field and I understand that. The best for the current pandemic is wash your hands, social distance and this time everyone on Earth gets the vaccine.

I didn't argue if more people get it that it limits mutation. I stated a fact, which both the NIH and CDC have shared in other releases on other viruses, that mutations occur more frequently when the ability to spread is reduced. It's the concept of the 'arms race'. GMO firms utilize this information regularly to surround GMO crops with non-GMO crops. This allows the bacteria/bugs/etc to 'feast' on the non-GMO crops, lowering their need to adapt. The same is true with viruses. It doesn't mean they WON'T, it means it slows and reduces the natural need to. That is a fact. It's also a fact that each mutation is often more contagious but less dangerous. Viruses don't do well by killing their hosts - it limits spread and survival. The 'goal' of these things is to survive, not destroy. So having a host survive is far more beneficial to a virus than killing the host - which is why what we're seeing is old/infirm/compromised.
That brings me to the 1%. It's not 1%. It's .6% in the US (mainly because of some stupid BS pulled by governors in a few states - for which they aren't being prosecuted, and I find that astounding) and .4% around the world. That's still high. But it's probably even lower than that when you realize how many people likely were NEVER TESTED. As a result, the fatality rate is likely overstated. And that's not even the only reason it's overstated. But I see no reason to pursue this. You're not in the health care field - neither am I. But I am a statistician and I did study to be a physician for a brief period.
My argument only falls "short" insofar as you believe everything you're told.
Like 14 days to lower the curve - now on to a year and a half (when this started, I told people it was a political move and that it wouldn't end that easily).
That masks didn't work, then they did but only if they were N95, then any face covering is sufficient.
That hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin don't work (when the results show otherwise if used in the proper protocol - but all the studies didn't use the proper protocol because you know, political points needed to be made and Big Pharma needed its payout).

Point is, believe what you want. I had it. I know tons of people who had it. I never said don't get the vaccine. I never said it's not dangerous for some. But because I simply don't conform with the fear, for some reason I'm a pariah for those of you who have chosen to listen to "authorities" who constantly flip-flop and declare themselves the embodiment of "science". I suggest re-reading the start of the French Revolution and the early fetishism of its leaders with "science". Robespierre was a huge proponent of "science". The Cult of Reason is a tough religion to fight.

 

[medroogies]

What is your objective here? You have written your story. Your responses are highly charged with a a slow reveal-agenda.

When someone disagrees, you accuse them of not doing a deep dive on the subject, not understanding the subject matter as well as you, or you toss out orthogonal arguments related to political ideologies (libertarianism) and and claim you are knee deep in a fight with a bunch of ‘karen’s’ who have invaded your personal space. Your decision on which vaccine is ’best’ sums up your level of ‘subject matter expertise’.

Some of your theories are naive, in particular your thoughts on the evolutionary advantages of viral mutations, but none of us are bringing that up, we don’t really care.

We get it, you don’t want the vaccine (unless you suddenly do) and your decision was arrived at based on your google grasp of the subject matter, the fact that your physician ‘smiled‘ at you when you unloaded on him your substantial reasons for exercising your freedoms, and your 85 year old ‘health worker’ dad with a bad ticker said the news is full of B.S, as if that is a revelation.

so what is your point?

here is mine, thank you for sharing your thoughts initially, you made your decision. Your posts smell political. I am out of here.





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My agenda is simple. I have read multiple people demean and diminish those of us who have chosen to not get the vaccine, as if we're some kinds of idiots.
None of my theories are naive. The fact you're unfamiliar or have someone you consider an authority saying "yeah I never heard of that" doesn't mean it's not true. It is a fact.
MY agenda is that telling people who don't get vaccines that THEY are the "problem" and the "only way" we'll get out of this is to get the vaccine is simply a falsehood. That's a belief that we can reach 100% safety and 0 covid. A very bad idea and goal. It can't be achieved. Even the 'experts' say we're going to live with this for a very long time.
That said, let's keep paying attention to Sweden, which took an unusual approach - and it has paid off with a multitude of benefits. No loss to their economy, fatality rate a little high, but not outrageous, and no current resurgence or arrival of Delta (or Gamma or Epsilon or any others). Maybe it's too early to tell, but right now they're looking downright brilliant.

My point is civil liberties are more important than a desire to "feel safe". If I wanted to "feel safe" I'd wrap myself in bubble wrap and never leave the house. Life is about risk and how YOU manage YOUR risk - not how you manage OTHER peoples' appetites for risk. You have no right to "be safe from infection", outside of your ability to avoid putting yourself at risk...and how you do that is up to you, not up to how you manage other people or their points of view.

As I said elsewhere, if managing risk to absolute zero - which seems to be the goal of "get the vaccine no matter what or you're a Neanderthal" types - then perhaps engaging in this hobby and posting on these boards is a bad idea from top to bottom. There's more risk doing this than there is in catching Covid.

Finally, and this is critical, why does everyone point out that they know someone who died with Covid as a reason to be scared when I know more people who were killed by domestic abuse or suicide - things that more than doubled due to lockdowns? Apparently the media cares little for the various deaths that were the result of the politically driven lockdowns and had nothing to do with Covid. I suppose those are just collateral damage in the long game here.

Let people make their choices and don't demean or diminish the choices they make. That's my agenda. But I'm tired of the "you're not informed" and "you're naive" bullshit. I took the time to actually read a ton of information on this when I got sick with it. There is a lot of BS being spread by the media. But they are "credible" I'm told.

 

[BIGBOB62]

This is trending like the politics thread…..

 

[Indra]

You are claiming that deaths are over reported. Not sure where you are getting your facts. 0.6% of 7 bill around the world is ~40 million who would be alive without covid (most of them).
a coordinated world wide conspiracy is not possible.
Sweden was a failed experiment. And they are looking dumb for using such a flawed theory. They are vaccinating their people.
Just because you “researched” does not make you smarter than doctors.
Mask don’t work 100%, neither do seatbelts. It still protects.
The BS is not only spread by media but also by self proclaimed experts

 

[njlefty]

This isn't directed at anyone here, but every anti-vaxxer I have spoken to always start out by telling me they are not an anti-vaxxer.

None of the anti-vaxxers I know have any medical background, training, education, experience, or expertise.

 

[retired051923]

Just shut the fuck up and go to your Facebook group all of you. Stay off this board with this dumb shit. I SERIOUSLY MEAN ALL OF YOU THAT JUST WANT TO SPEND ALL GOD DAMN DAY TROLLING FOR SOME SORT OF REACTION.

THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTE TRUTHS WHEN IT COMES TO SCIENCE. WHAT MEDICINE WORKS 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME? GETtING THE VACCINE HELPS. SOME HAVE BAD REACTIONS AND THEY CAN'T HELP THAT. SOME ARE JUST DUMB AS HELL AND WILL SAY THE DUMBEST SHIT TO GET A REACTION OUT OF SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO LIFE AND COME TO THIS SITE TO TALK GOD DAMN POLITICS AND THINK THEY KNOW SCIENCE BECAUSE THEY READ SOME STUPID ASS ARTICLE FROM A NON SCIENTIST THAT ALLIGNED WITH THEIR STUPID ASS VIEWS.

THIS ISN'T YOUR SHITTY FACEBOOK DUMB FUCK BOARD. IT IS A DUMB FUCK BOARD FOR OTHER TOPICS.

HERE IS AN ABSLOUTE TRUTH. I HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO BAN ALL YOU STUPID ASSHOLES THAT KEEP STARTING THIS SHIT. STOP DOING THIS OR GET THE FUCK OFF THIS SITE.