Review: Maya at Apple Pie Spa

[Wormwood1988]

but I think alot of you guys are really forgetting that they have the option to not like you too. And that's ok. Maya is that type and I bet she would change style if she doesn't like/attracted to you or whatever.

Interesting take. I always looked at the hobby as essentially a transaction for services rendered and not about two people who share an attraction for one another. I never considered the expected experience would be based on anything other than the rate advertised or previous reviews.

I’m pretty certain everyone of my past excellent experiences were definitely not the product of a provider finding me attractive. Nice, friendly, respectful, a gentleman I would hope, but attractive when considering how beautiful they are, nope.

 

[Birdofparadise]

Interesting take. I always looked at the hobby as essentially a transaction for services rendered and not about two people who share an attraction for one another. I never considered the expected experience would be based on anything other than the rate advertised or previous reviews.

I’m pretty certain everyone of my past excellent experiences were definitely not the product of a provider finding me attractive. Nice, friendly, respectful, a gentleman I would hope, but attractive when considering how beautiful they are, nope.

I understand your perspective, but I have the opposite experiences. The best times I have had were because the provider thought, and usually voiced, how attractive I was to them. And nothing turns me on more knowing that they are turned on. Having said that, there were experiences I have had where the provider was GFE, but not attracted to me, and times where the provider didn't provide the girlfriend experience, but I felt their attraction to me. The latter experiences were better than the former.

 

[Wayne1250]

It's only human nature. And it''s not all about being "attractive" in just looks. Asian girls seem to make a connection or judge their customers in based on broader things beyond good looks. Also age is not as big a deal to them as their Western counterparts. They look for personality, how you speak to them, showing kindness, neat cloths, and other non physical characteristics.

They can tell who is there for just, "wham, bam, thank you mame". From all of it they can determine who they want as repeat customers and perhaps give a little extra effort to get them to come back.

A little break the ice gift, or extra top goes a long way to to making the next visit even better. If they are willing to give you some type of contact info also shows that they want to see you again.

Sorry if I got off topic a little, some of this is just my personal slant on why YMMV.

 

[Wormwood1988]

I understand your perspective, but I have the opposite experiences. The best times I have had were because the provider thought, and usually voiced, how attractive I was to them. And nothing turns me on more knowing that they are turned on. Having said that, there were experiences I have had where the provider was GFE, but not attracted to me, and times where the provider didn't provide the girlfriend experience, but I felt their attraction to me. The latter experiences were better than the former.

If the provider is not attracted to you and your experience suffers when compared to the monger who she is attracted to, should the rate remain the same?

 

[Birdofparadise]

If the provider is not attracted to you and your experience suffers when compared to the monger who she is attracted to, should the rate remain the same?

Yes, because the rate is based on time.

 

[Sam1231a]

It's only human nature. And it''s not all about being "attractive" in just looks. Asian girls seem to make a connection or judge their customers in based on broader things beyond good looks. Also age is not as big a deal to them as their Western counterparts. They look for personality, how you speak to them, showing kindness, neat cloths, and other non physical characteristics.

They can tell who is there for just, "wham, bam, thank you mame". From all of it they can determine who they want as repeat customers and perhaps give a little extra effort to get them to come back.

A little break the ice gift, or extra top goes a long way to to making the next visit even better. If they are willing to give you some type of contact info also shows that they want to see you again.

Sorry if I got off topic a little, some of this is just my personal slant on why YMMV.

Well said and very accurate!!

 

[the2015stud]

If the provider is not attracted to you and your experience suffers when compared to the monger who she is attracted to, should the rate remain the same?

Sorry I didn't mean attraction only. It really is the connection with the provider.
Imo the rate should always remain what was negotiated. You can decide if it was or wasn't worth it. Repeat if you think the price was right
Side story: someone at new star I met told me about how she would give people awful service cause she just didn't care about all the money since she was fine with the amount she was making. We made an insane connection and she basically gave me GFE at the 1.6 after couple visits. She was there for about 2 months and I've missed her since.
This is what I hunt for.

 

[Wormwood1988]

Yes, because the rate is based on time.

But the level of service is not the same (and honestly, we all know the fee isn’t for time spent together).

Not to be argumentative, and this will be my last post, but the classic argument from absurd results (reductio ad absurdum) might (or might not) be enlightening. If nothing else it might be worth a shit and a few giggles.

If you were to go to a restaurant and have a meal, and you were served by the same server waiting on an adjacent table. You both have the same meal and settle at the same time but you overhear the server tell the customer next to you “the appetizer is on the house”. To your surprise you look at your bill and you see you’ve been charged for the appetizer. You question why your appetizer wasn’t “on the house” like the other customer and she replied “oh because I think he’s cute”. Would you find that agreeable?

 

[the2015stud]

But the level of service is not the same (and honestly, we all know the fee isn’t for time spent together).

Not to be argumentative, and this will be my last post, but the classic argument from absurd results (reductio ad absurdum) might (or might not) be enlightening. If nothing else it might be worth a shit and a few giggles.

If you were to go to a restaurant and have a meal, and you were served by the same server waiting on an adjacent table. You both have the same meal and settle at the same time but you overhear the server tell the customer next to you “the appetizer is on the house”. To your surprise you look at your bill and you see you’ve been charged for the appetizer. You question why your appetizer wasn’t “on the house” like the other customer and she replied “oh because I think he’s cute”. Would you find that agreeable?

Not agreeable but couple of things,
1) you either get upset that your value isn't the same and then don't go back
2) you're fine with the price you pay since service is never really standardized.

There's a forum about cheesesteaks and people debating it. I think it's the same thing. If a front counter girl gives another dude fries with his I don't get upset that I'm not getting fries. Im there for the cheese steak. If the cheese steak I get fits the value I paid for it then I'll probably go back. If I go back the second time and it's awful then I'll prob think about trying a different cheese steak or roll the dice on getting a cheese steak again where it could be good like the first time or bad like my recent experience

 

[the2015stud]

I guess this is hobby is very similar to cheese steaks........
I should write some sort of PhD thesis on this

 

[Wayne1250]

Maybe not fair, but leave it to human nature. Maybe the server knows that this customer is cute and woll tip her better if he gets special treatment (free appetizer and a cute smile).

Not necessarily fair but the same thing happens at the spas too, YMMV. Only other thing is that server or provider provide at least the minimal level of acceptable service. But the quality of food is out of the servers control. Whereas, the provider is in full control of the menu, and the quality of her effort. Basically the Emo/MMS is the server at the spa and only takes the set house fee.

 

[Wormwood1988]

I realize I said I wouldn’t post again on this thread but I’m compelled to add one more thing then I’ll give everyone else the last word.

Firstly, I think it’s worthy to note that this thread had considerable disagreement but remained civil. Everyone respectfully disagreed without disparaging one another. I think that is a good outcome even if we continue to disagree. With incivility on the increase I think that is a great gift, a sincere thank you for that.

In regards to discussion around expectations, the thread is really an example of an argument where people talk past one another. Originally, the point being made was about services offered that were less than standard for a VIP rate. Many of responses focused on the motivations of the provider for why the experience was different. I don’t think anyone is in disagreement about a provider having more or less a connection with a client. Or that some clients might receive more affection and warmth than others. Or even that a provider is free to make negative judgements about one client while making positive judgements about another.

My point is that it is a reasonable expectation that if there is VIP level of service for a certain rate, and you’ve paid that fee (and presuming no bad behavior on your part), then you should experience that level of service. Notwithstanding that everyone’s experience of the same service will be different based on the level of connection between the two, but the service provided should be the same. If VIP includes X,Y, and Z (establishes by reviews and reputation) then X,Y, and Z should be the norm for that rate regardless of whether there is a personal connection or not.

The whole VIP arrangement makes little sense if there is the offer of VIP service for an additional fee, and once paid, services are only actually delivered at the discretion of the provider without any refund of the difference between the standard rate. If this were true, nobody could ever make the claim of being “ripped off” because failed expectations could always be explained away by the provider “not having a connection”. This whole game is built on discretion and trust, and I’ve never read in any review someone ask a provider if they’ve made connection with each other prior to requesting VIP level service. I also doubt this would be acceptable in any other kind of transaction by any of the mongers advocating for a provider being paid a bonus for VIP services, but exercising discretion as to whether they actually wanted to deliver that level of service or not.

Floor’s yours...

 

[Birdofparadise]

Yes, I agree. We just provided different perspective, which is important in learning and understanding about one another. I just want to add an anecdote that I was thinking of regarding this discussion. I was at a spa not too long ago. I was met by a provider who I knew liked me. She said it once, and I could tell by the things she said and how she treated me. So of course I was really perplexed when she kept pushing me off to see the new girl. I said no, I'll see you. And she kept saying "are you sure? try new girl". Eventually I relented, and I also regretted. But I asked another provider at same spa about that. I said to her, "you girls look out for each other, help one another out, yes?" And she said "yes, we work as a team, everybody win". So of course it would be hard for me at first to understand why she pushed me off to the new girl. But, South Koreans and other Asians have collectivist cultures, and I can only assume this is magnified by being in a foreign country. It took a while for me with an individualized, American mindset to grasp this.

 

[Al B]

I realize I said I wouldn’t post again on this thread but I’m compelled to add one more thing then I’ll give everyone else the last word.

Firstly, I think it’s worthy to note that this thread had considerable disagreement but remained civil. Everyone respectfully disagreed without disparaging one another. I think that is a good outcome even if we continue to disagree. With incivility on the increase I think that is a great gift, a sincere thank you for that.

In regards to discussion around expectations, the thread is really an example of an argument where people talk past one another. Originally, the point being made was about services offered that were less than standard for a VIP rate. Many of responses focused on the motivations of the provider for why the experience was different. I don’t think anyone is in disagreement about a provider having more or less a connection with a client. Or that some clients might receive more affection and warmth than others. Or even that a provider is free to make negative judgements about one client while making positive judgements about another.

My point is that it is a reasonable expectation that if there is VIP level of service for a certain rate, and you’ve paid that fee (and presuming no bad behavior on your part), then you should experience that level of service. Notwithstanding that everyone’s experience of the same service will be different based on the level of connection between the two, but the service provided should be the same. If VIP includes X,Y, and Z (establishes by reviews and reputation) then X,Y, and Z should be the norm for that rate regardless of whether there is a personal connection or not.

The whole VIP arrangement makes little sense if there is the offer of VIP service for an additional fee, and once paid, services are only actually delivered at the discretion of the provider without any refund of the difference between the standard rate. If this were true, nobody could ever make the claim of being “ripped off” because failed expectations could always be explained away by the provider “not having a connection”. This whole game is built on discretion and trust, and I’ve never read in any review someone ask a provider if they’ve made connection with each other prior to requesting VIP level service. I also doubt this would be acceptable in any other kind of transaction by any of the mongers advocating for a provider being paid a bonus for VIP services, but exercising discretion as to whether they actually wanted to deliver that level of service or not.

Floor’s yours...

Perfectly explained. That's again why I dont prepay for services excluding house fee. If service is great then so will the tip. No more paying VIP rates just to receive normal service. I fell for that trick many times when I got in the game many years ago. That's also what makes sites like this important. It gives you a feel of a situation without actually being there.

 

[Wayne1250]

Wormwood1988, you are right there is an acceptable minimal level of service at each price point. Now one may not like how the girl performs on of those elements, but at least it was included.

I think the AAMP model (EPM, CP and others) have mastered providing the minimum standard services at their level. The AMP's seem to deviate the most regarding their levels of service.

When not happy, just find other places and providers to go to. That's why we have this site.

 

[248Lancer]

Maybe the better analogy is a bartender or barista. Good tippers and friendl, respectful customers have Their drinks made well. If there an attraction, you get conversation, too if you’re not a jerk. Regulars always get better service. Jerks Get terrible drinks so they will leave and not return. Retell does o e see a person Sitting at the bar ComplainOmg when another customer gets a little extra attention.

 

[248Lancer]

boy did autocorrect do a number on my last post...

 

[Wormwood1988]

Maybe the better analogy is a bartender or barista. Good tippers and friendl, respectful customers have Their drinks made well. If there an attraction, you get conversation, too if you’re not a jerk. Regulars always get better service. Jerks Get terrible drinks so they will leave and not return. Retell does o e see a person Sitting at the bar ComplainOmg when another customer gets a little extra attention.

I appreciate you’re attempt to clarify the debate but your analogy is faulty on the following points:

“Good tippers and friendl, respectful customers have Their drinks made well”

I was very careful to make the point that there was no bad behavior on the part of the client. Tipping at the bar takes place after the tab is settled, not before. I mentioned that I intended to tip above the VIP rate afterwards but based on experience decided against it.

“Regulars always get better service”

Better service isn’t the debate, fulfillment of services promised is.

A better analogy to what I wrote using a bartender is to say that a customer who was considered a regular or good tipper received extras beyond the expected service whereas the non-regular, or average tipper was charged for drinks they never received.

 

[the2015stud]

Oh yeah I totally misunderstood!
I absolutely agree with you.
Now then analogy changes to . Guy in front of you guys amazing shrooms fried onions and expensive cheese and you got half a cheese steak with nothing. Then Id be pissed.
But it's also on you if youre going back hoping they give you what the other better cheesteak that's on you

 

[the2015stud]

I appreciate you’re attempt to clarify the debate but your analogy is faulty on the following points:

“Good tippers and friendl, respectful customers have Their drinks made well”

I was very careful to make the point that there was no bad behavior on the part of the client. Tipping at the bar takes place after the tab is settled, not before. I mentioned that I intended to tip above the VIP rate afterwards but based on experience decided against it.

“Regulars always get better service”

Better service isn’t the debate, fulfillment of services promised is.

A better analogy to what I wrote using a bartender is to say that a customer who was considered a regular or good tipper received extras beyond the expected service whereas the non-regular, or average tipper was charged for drinks they never received.

Sorry didn't read analogy. Spot on