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specialized hs/unfairness/racism etc thread
- Thread starter dudenuts
- Start date
That's the crux of the problem. A lot of the criteria they use to measure if an applicant qualifies for admission is subjective. There's no way to apply "fairness" to those values. And if you take into consideration the "Legacy" issue, where children of past graduates have a distinct advantage with that form of nepotism, "fairness" in the application process gets less and less defendable.
The full story... History: The media spent years stoking tensions between he Korean communiy and Black americans, placing the blame for lack of jobs on the tightly nit Koreatown community, comprised of tight nit families running family owned businesses. The media used a apellate cort ruling from a single horrific encounter between Soon Ja Du and Latasha Harlins to divert / misdirect attention away from the multiple cases of police brutality taking place within LA between white cops and black citizens. I.e., scapegoatism'. After Rodney King was tazed and beaten by a circle of cops, all of which was on tape, and the 4 white officers were let off, Koreatown was set on fire. The media had done it's job
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1769555.html
"Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 5, California.
PEOPLE of the State of California, Petitioner, v. SUPERIOR COURT of Los Angeles County, Respondent. SOON JA DU, Real Party in Interest.
No. B063918.
Decided: April 21, 1992
The court prefaced its remarks at the sentencing hearing by explaining that in imposing sentence it was required to consider (along with other applicable rules) the general sentencing guidelines set forth in California Rules of Court, rule 410.19 Applying those guidelines, the court concluded that defendant was not a danger to society (rule 410(a)) and that a state prison sentence was not necessary either to encourage defendant to lead a law-abiding life (rule 410(c)) or to isolate her in order to prevent her from committing other crimes (rule 410(e)). With respect to rule 410(g), achieving uniformity of sentencing, the court stated that such uniformity was impossible to achieve because each voluntary manslaughter case involves a uniquely different factual situation.
The District Attorney asserts that the court gave no consideration to other portions of rule 410 which would have impacted less favorably on defendant, and concludes that the court focused only on the defendant and not the crime. The District Attorney specifically contends that the court misapplied rules 410(b) [whether a state prison sentence was needed to punish defendant],20 410(d) [whether its sentence would deter others from criminal conduct by demonstrating its consequences], and 410(g) [uniformity of sentencing]. On the latter point, the District Attorney points to statistics which show that even in voluntary manslaughter cases where probation is granted, the majority of defendants receive some jail time as a condition of probation.
We reject the District Attorney's contention that the court misapplied rule 410. First, the court is presumed to have considered all relevant criteria enumerated in the rules unless the record affirmatively demonstrates otherwise. (Cal.Rules of Court, rule 409.) 21 Second, rule 410 specifically acknowledges that an analysis of all the factors set forth in the rule may lead to inconsistent results, and that the court is entitled to consider which objectives are of primary importance in the particular case (fn. 9 ante ). The court did so here.
Third, the District Attorney cannot demonstrate, merely by reciting statistics, that the court abused its discretion by not imposing jail time as a condition of defendant's probation. “For example, if 97 percent of all defendants convicted of driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs are not (or are) sentenced to jail, that does not establish an abuse of discretion regarding a particular appellant, regardless of whether he is part of the 97 percent or the 3 percent. Abuse of discretion must be demonstrated based on the facts of the particular case being reviewed, and not on a statistical label.” (People v. Preyer (1985) 164 Cal.App.3d 568, 574, 210 Cal.Rptr. 807.)
Furthermore, the Legislature has decreed that where a defendant is convicted of certain specified crimes,22 the court must, except in unusual cases, impose a jail term as a condition of probation. By not including voluntary manslaughter in those crimes, the Legislature afforded trial courts the discretion to grant probation without a mandatory jail sentence as a condition thereof. The respondent court's decision not to impose jail time in this case was within the guidelines set by the Legislature."
April 29, 1992, is known as "sa-i-gu" to Korean Americans. It was the day that four white police officers were found not guilty in the beating of Rodney King. As a result, violence erupted in Los Angeles, affecting the nearby Koreatown. Rather than being simply a riot between blacks and whites, it involved Korean Americans who, while trying to achieve the American dream, found these dreams consumed in fire as their stores were burnt down to the ground and looted. The governor, in an attempt to squelch the riots, sent in 6,000 National Guard troops, with the riots' ending on May 1.
There had always been hostility between the African Americans and Korean Americans that resulted from stereotypes that each group had of the other. The African Americans believed that the Koreans were exploitative and would not hire blacks, as well as viewing them as unfriendly and rude. Koreans, on the other hand, believed that the blacks were poor, violent, and lazy. It was these misconceptions that they had of each other that resulted in uneasy tensions between the two groups. The blacks failed to recognize that the Korean businesses were often a family business and that it was cultural customs that prevented them from being overtly friendly, while the Koreans failed to realize the economic and social problems that the blacks had to face living in inner city areas.
An event that helped precipitate the violence against the Koreans was the killing of a fifteen-year-old African American girl named Latasha Harlins, who had been killed by Soon Ja Du in 1991. The blacks had already been outraged when Du was only put on probation, but now with the verdict in the Rodney King case, one said: "First that 15-year-old was killed and they got away with it. Then they beat Rodeny King like a dog and the jury sets them free. The black people don't get no justice, nowhere, no time" (Takaki, 495). The resulting consequence was violence towards Koreans and their stores.
Korean Americans largely were not given a voice, but one who did write about her perspective of the race riots was Elaine Kim. Newsweek magazine had asked her for a personal college essay, which she wrote on her own terms. She largely believed that the "media played a major role in exacerbating the damage and ill will toward Korean Americans, first by spotlighting tensions between African Americans and Koreans above all efforts to work together…and second by exploiting racist stereotypes of Koreans as unfathomable aliens, this time wielding guns on rooftops and allegedly firing wildly into crowds" (Kim, 275). Her essay accused the media of using the tensions that existed between the two groups as a way of avoiding the true roots of the riots, which she believed was a result of corporate and government offices and of institutions and the media that tried to keep the two groups ignorant about the other by the lack of appropriate education and the distortion of their experiences. Despite the editor's attempts to change the essay, it was published as she had written it, following which she received hate mail.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1769555.html
"Court of Appeal, Second District, Division 5, California.
PEOPLE of the State of California, Petitioner, v. SUPERIOR COURT of Los Angeles County, Respondent. SOON JA DU, Real Party in Interest.
No. B063918.
Decided: April 21, 1992
The court prefaced its remarks at the sentencing hearing by explaining that in imposing sentence it was required to consider (along with other applicable rules) the general sentencing guidelines set forth in California Rules of Court, rule 410.19 Applying those guidelines, the court concluded that defendant was not a danger to society (rule 410(a)) and that a state prison sentence was not necessary either to encourage defendant to lead a law-abiding life (rule 410(c)) or to isolate her in order to prevent her from committing other crimes (rule 410(e)). With respect to rule 410(g), achieving uniformity of sentencing, the court stated that such uniformity was impossible to achieve because each voluntary manslaughter case involves a uniquely different factual situation.
The District Attorney asserts that the court gave no consideration to other portions of rule 410 which would have impacted less favorably on defendant, and concludes that the court focused only on the defendant and not the crime. The District Attorney specifically contends that the court misapplied rules 410(b) [whether a state prison sentence was needed to punish defendant],20 410(d) [whether its sentence would deter others from criminal conduct by demonstrating its consequences], and 410(g) [uniformity of sentencing]. On the latter point, the District Attorney points to statistics which show that even in voluntary manslaughter cases where probation is granted, the majority of defendants receive some jail time as a condition of probation.
We reject the District Attorney's contention that the court misapplied rule 410. First, the court is presumed to have considered all relevant criteria enumerated in the rules unless the record affirmatively demonstrates otherwise. (Cal.Rules of Court, rule 409.) 21 Second, rule 410 specifically acknowledges that an analysis of all the factors set forth in the rule may lead to inconsistent results, and that the court is entitled to consider which objectives are of primary importance in the particular case (fn. 9 ante ). The court did so here.
Third, the District Attorney cannot demonstrate, merely by reciting statistics, that the court abused its discretion by not imposing jail time as a condition of defendant's probation. “For example, if 97 percent of all defendants convicted of driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs are not (or are) sentenced to jail, that does not establish an abuse of discretion regarding a particular appellant, regardless of whether he is part of the 97 percent or the 3 percent. Abuse of discretion must be demonstrated based on the facts of the particular case being reviewed, and not on a statistical label.” (People v. Preyer (1985) 164 Cal.App.3d 568, 574, 210 Cal.Rptr. 807.)
Furthermore, the Legislature has decreed that where a defendant is convicted of certain specified crimes,22 the court must, except in unusual cases, impose a jail term as a condition of probation. By not including voluntary manslaughter in those crimes, the Legislature afforded trial courts the discretion to grant probation without a mandatory jail sentence as a condition thereof. The respondent court's decision not to impose jail time in this case was within the guidelines set by the Legislature."
April 29, 1992, is known as "sa-i-gu" to Korean Americans. It was the day that four white police officers were found not guilty in the beating of Rodney King. As a result, violence erupted in Los Angeles, affecting the nearby Koreatown. Rather than being simply a riot between blacks and whites, it involved Korean Americans who, while trying to achieve the American dream, found these dreams consumed in fire as their stores were burnt down to the ground and looted. The governor, in an attempt to squelch the riots, sent in 6,000 National Guard troops, with the riots' ending on May 1.
There had always been hostility between the African Americans and Korean Americans that resulted from stereotypes that each group had of the other. The African Americans believed that the Koreans were exploitative and would not hire blacks, as well as viewing them as unfriendly and rude. Koreans, on the other hand, believed that the blacks were poor, violent, and lazy. It was these misconceptions that they had of each other that resulted in uneasy tensions between the two groups. The blacks failed to recognize that the Korean businesses were often a family business and that it was cultural customs that prevented them from being overtly friendly, while the Koreans failed to realize the economic and social problems that the blacks had to face living in inner city areas.
An event that helped precipitate the violence against the Koreans was the killing of a fifteen-year-old African American girl named Latasha Harlins, who had been killed by Soon Ja Du in 1991. The blacks had already been outraged when Du was only put on probation, but now with the verdict in the Rodney King case, one said: "First that 15-year-old was killed and they got away with it. Then they beat Rodeny King like a dog and the jury sets them free. The black people don't get no justice, nowhere, no time" (Takaki, 495). The resulting consequence was violence towards Koreans and their stores.
Korean Americans largely were not given a voice, but one who did write about her perspective of the race riots was Elaine Kim. Newsweek magazine had asked her for a personal college essay, which she wrote on her own terms. She largely believed that the "media played a major role in exacerbating the damage and ill will toward Korean Americans, first by spotlighting tensions between African Americans and Koreans above all efforts to work together…and second by exploiting racist stereotypes of Koreans as unfathomable aliens, this time wielding guns on rooftops and allegedly firing wildly into crowds" (Kim, 275). Her essay accused the media of using the tensions that existed between the two groups as a way of avoiding the true roots of the riots, which she believed was a result of corporate and government offices and of institutions and the media that tried to keep the two groups ignorant about the other by the lack of appropriate education and the distortion of their experiences. Despite the editor's attempts to change the essay, it was published as she had written it, following which she received hate mail.
Didn't know this was being discussed here. Just wanted to chime in my $0.02...
It's not entirely that DeBlasio is racist against Asians, but it's that he's barking up the wrong tree. What's more concerning is we have a DOE chancellor in Richard Carranza who seems to have some Asian bias himself, claiming that Asians think they own the specialized high schools, and a plethora of other things.
I don't know what and where they get their data from regarding schooling informatics dealing with race and success and failure rates, but it definitely has nothing to do with "too many Asians". NYC Asian immigrants work hard.
I was born and raised here and grew up in Chinatown. Everybody grew up poor. Most of us didn't work that hard, but there was always a small % of struggling families always pushing their kids far enough to attend these specialized public schools. Parents would be working 6-7 days straight, 8-12 hour shifts, barely have time to parent their kids. I didn't attend these but I knew a lot of people who did; we all grew up with the TV, books, and playing in the street. There's a model minority myth trapping Asians in NYC and in America. A lot of people bust their ass and work hard to get to what aspiring goals they have.
That's why we're on this site and it's named what it is and it's so prevalent. Where's the long list of White, Black, and Hispanic MPs? There's probably a few here and there, but they probably won't out number the A one's.
And for the mayor and chancellor to try and implement policies to reduce admissions in an attempt to "diversify" the specialized schools by capping them is a spit in the face to all the hard working families trying to put their kids there for a better education and future. Does attending these schools make a difference? Overall I would say yes. Not everybody I knew that attended these schools came out as massive bread winners but they definitely were more well rounded overall because not everyone's cut out for certain things in life.
Anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend.
It's not entirely that DeBlasio is racist against Asians, but it's that he's barking up the wrong tree. What's more concerning is we have a DOE chancellor in Richard Carranza who seems to have some Asian bias himself, claiming that Asians think they own the specialized high schools, and a plethora of other things.
I don't know what and where they get their data from regarding schooling informatics dealing with race and success and failure rates, but it definitely has nothing to do with "too many Asians". NYC Asian immigrants work hard.
I was born and raised here and grew up in Chinatown. Everybody grew up poor. Most of us didn't work that hard, but there was always a small % of struggling families always pushing their kids far enough to attend these specialized public schools. Parents would be working 6-7 days straight, 8-12 hour shifts, barely have time to parent their kids. I didn't attend these but I knew a lot of people who did; we all grew up with the TV, books, and playing in the street. There's a model minority myth trapping Asians in NYC and in America. A lot of people bust their ass and work hard to get to what aspiring goals they have.
That's why we're on this site and it's named what it is and it's so prevalent. Where's the long list of White, Black, and Hispanic MPs? There's probably a few here and there, but they probably won't out number the A one's.
And for the mayor and chancellor to try and implement policies to reduce admissions in an attempt to "diversify" the specialized schools by capping them is a spit in the face to all the hard working families trying to put their kids there for a better education and future. Does attending these schools make a difference? Overall I would say yes. Not everybody I knew that attended these schools came out as massive bread winners but they definitely were more well rounded overall because not everyone's cut out for certain things in life.
Anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend.
I agree with most of what you are saying. From Freshman year in High school I was getting pussy. Idgaf about school. If they did and many of them sacrificed having fun to get that education more power to them. I have no problem and I feel others shouldn't either to let the people who score the best go to the specialized schools.
As far as mps go. Latinas and Caucasians aren't that into that type of setup. It's not that they can't compete. They don't want to.
As far as mps go. Latinas and Caucasians aren't that into that type of setup. It's not that they can't compete. They don't want to.
Asian kids attend regular school, after school tutoring, Saturday tutoring, summer school tutoring just to get a seat in nyc specialized HS. You get in based on the specialized exams period. We sacrifice our resources as other kids hang out in the parks smoking weed. Asian parents working 50 hours plus just to put their kids to tutoring schools. Your merits and promotions are based on your hard work.
100% through and through.
NYC needs to open more specialized schools, not punish students based on their skin color.
If they put caps in these specialized schools to diversify the racial disparity, what makes them think that the students that didn't make it into these specialized schools in the first place will survive the curriculums? It doesn't make sense.
Asian immigrant families work hard so they may have a chance to lift their families out of poverty. If the city did more to lift people in general out of poverty we wouldn't be playing hunger games year after year.
NYC needs to open more specialized schools, not punish students based on their skin color.
If they put caps in these specialized schools to diversify the racial disparity, what makes them think that the students that didn't make it into these specialized schools in the first place will survive the curriculums? It doesn't make sense.
Asian immigrant families work hard so they may have a chance to lift their families out of poverty. If the city did more to lift people in general out of poverty we wouldn't be playing hunger games year after year.
From about 6th grade on all I thought about was getting pussy.
I was lucky in that I never really had to study. And good thing too otherwise I never would have made it out of 8th grade.
Because you know what's worse that tanking school because you are getting pussy?
Not getting pussy when you want it all the time!
Can drive a guy freaking nuts.
But, I suppose if was OK in the end, and here I am, 40+ years later...on AmpReviews...
I was lucky in that I never really had to study. And good thing too otherwise I never would have made it out of 8th grade.
Because you know what's worse that tanking school because you are getting pussy?
Not getting pussy when you want it all the time!
Can drive a guy freaking nuts.
But, I suppose if was OK in the end, and here I am, 40+ years later...on AmpReviews...