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Attorney referral?
- Thread starter Jimmytee
- Start date
If you’re lawfully “detained” (not free to leave) then you have to identify yourself, it’s CA Law, look it up if you don’t believe me, then invoke your 5th and stfu.
If you’re not sure your lawfully detained, then just ask “am I being detained or free to leave?” If they don’t say your not detained, then you don’t gotta ID or say shit and can just walk away from them, literally.
If you’re not sure your lawfully detained, then just ask “am I being detained or free to leave?” If they don’t say your not detained, then you don’t gotta ID or say shit and can just walk away from them, literally.
Police only need probable cause, you look suspicious, guilty, out of place, or nervous - the cop thinks you are about to commit a crime, in the process of committing a crime, or committed a crime, they can arrest you. You watch tv shows - you know what to do from here.
Never discuss price or/for services. I'm guessing OP did one or both of these - rookie mistake.
Talk to a couple lawyers, ask them how many cases like this they have done, win/loss, average fine/time, bunch of other questions too. Ask them one last question - if something like this happened to your good friend, who would they recommend. The honest ones will give you a name. Offer a referral fee if they know the other lawyer or they may waive it.
Unless someone has something useful, let this thread die - but I am sure someone will write an essay afterwards, more blah blah blah.
Never discuss price or/for services. I'm guessing OP did one or both of these - rookie mistake.
Talk to a couple lawyers, ask them how many cases like this they have done, win/loss, average fine/time, bunch of other questions too. Ask them one last question - if something like this happened to your good friend, who would they recommend. The honest ones will give you a name. Offer a referral fee if they know the other lawyer or they may waive it.
Unless someone has something useful, let this thread die - but I am sure someone will write an essay afterwards, more blah blah blah.
Yes, I agree. I have no idea that they can just detain me because they think I am a monger. With AAMP in large apartment complex, that is not possible I assume? So does it means that we should avoid hotels/motels (I think mostly Chinese independents)? K-orgs tends to be in large complex with many buildings.
No matter how many threads can be started and best practices, this hobby comes with risks such as these that every monger ought to know. Any apartment can get raided one fine day. There’s no way to know about it in advance. One can hope they are not in that place that time. That’s the best practice I say.
I understand there are risks but some rules of thumb would be good that I can keep in my mind if I ever come face to face with LE. Do I have to show ID or can I refuse? If they don't give me a ticket/citation to show up in court, does it mean I don't need to worry. Can they detain me without cause and say that they will contact my family? I consider these basic questions.
There's some insignificant precedents for not having to show ID..I wouldn't pull that sovereign citizen crap in a dire situation. Yes, there's some valid technicalities but you're already caught with your pants down literally, let's just show ID and get the F out of there ya know?
Again, not an attorney, however, I spend a lot of time with attorneys.
Whether it's this hobby or other ones like a traffic stop, the general flow chart is:
1) Comply immediately and shut the fcuk up. Follow instructions, provide identification (again, save the sovereign individual stuff for fantasies)
Since it's also the era of mostly peaceful protests, let me also give you guys some pointers. I've had speeding tickets where Glock 17's have been pulled on me and rightly so. That said, I also lived to talk about it obviously. You again, do not fight or argue with cops. You fight in court.
Cops are boot lickers for a reason. That said, they still want to go home at night. They don't want to die. Lower your windows. Keep your hands visible. Do not make sudden motions. Have your documents ready or inform the officer you are reaching for them with their permission. Comply comply comply comply. You do not want Hornady Critical Defense rounds to the face. Fight later in court.
2) Volunteer no information. Whether it's a traffic spot or you barely have a towel around your waist — don't say shit. Do not self-incriminate. They ask questions, you say, "I would to speak when my lawyer is present." (You should have a lawyer's number memorized. You should also have a criminal defense lawyer on retainer. Just 1k will do. "But I don't have that kinda money! Dude, you're on this website saying that? Get a life. You want to enjoy, then play this game defensively or suffer the consequences. You too can be writing this kinda hail mary post or you can have your ducks lined up in advance—pick. By not picking, you've already made a choice and it will be 10x more expensive going the hard way too.)
3) Here's your key line:
Just kidding. Making sure you're still paying attention..
The key line, "Sir, am I being detained or am I free to go?"
In poker terms, you should raised your whole stack and he cannot call or re-raise without holding something. He cannot bluff at this point. Sure, he can fabricate bullshit but your attorney can shred this in court later.
He has to have probable cause at this point to proceed further to detain you.
Detaining can mean a lot of things. You be detained and released. Detained and cited. Detained and arrested.
I've had the first two but not the last one. (Completely unrelated to this hobby.)
4) You're either in handcuffs or you're walking/driving away.
5) Continue to shut the fuck up. Then rant on the boards here immediately after.
Again, not an attorney, however, I spend a lot of time with attorneys.
Whether it's this hobby or other ones like a traffic stop, the general flow chart is:
1) Comply immediately and shut the fcuk up. Follow instructions, provide identification (again, save the sovereign individual stuff for fantasies)
Since it's also the era of mostly peaceful protests, let me also give you guys some pointers. I've had speeding tickets where Glock 17's have been pulled on me and rightly so. That said, I also lived to talk about it obviously. You again, do not fight or argue with cops. You fight in court.
Cops are boot lickers for a reason. That said, they still want to go home at night. They don't want to die. Lower your windows. Keep your hands visible. Do not make sudden motions. Have your documents ready or inform the officer you are reaching for them with their permission. Comply comply comply comply. You do not want Hornady Critical Defense rounds to the face. Fight later in court.
2) Volunteer no information. Whether it's a traffic spot or you barely have a towel around your waist — don't say shit. Do not self-incriminate. They ask questions, you say, "I would to speak when my lawyer is present." (You should have a lawyer's number memorized. You should also have a criminal defense lawyer on retainer. Just 1k will do. "But I don't have that kinda money! Dude, you're on this website saying that? Get a life. You want to enjoy, then play this game defensively or suffer the consequences. You too can be writing this kinda hail mary post or you can have your ducks lined up in advance—pick. By not picking, you've already made a choice and it will be 10x more expensive going the hard way too.)
3) Here's your key line:
Just kidding. Making sure you're still paying attention..
The key line, "Sir, am I being detained or am I free to go?"
In poker terms, you should raised your whole stack and he cannot call or re-raise without holding something. He cannot bluff at this point. Sure, he can fabricate bullshit but your attorney can shred this in court later.
He has to have probable cause at this point to proceed further to detain you.
Detaining can mean a lot of things. You be detained and released. Detained and cited. Detained and arrested.
I've had the first two but not the last one. (Completely unrelated to this hobby.)
4) You're either in handcuffs or you're walking/driving away.
5) Continue to shut the fuck up. Then rant on the boards here immediately after.
If they have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you've committed a crime, then you are legally required to identify. Otherwise you have no obligation to ID, unless you are driving. Driving is a privilege and not a right, unlike your right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures of your identity. They do have a lot of gray area to operate in as they do not need to tell you anything at all to prove their RAS to you. You also should not believe anything they choose to tell you as they are legally allowed to lie. Just a side note failure to ID cannot be a primary charge, only a secondary charge. In other words they need a crime that they already suspect you of to demand ID.
Detainment also requires RAS. It is wise to ask if you are actually being detained. If they are not detaining you, you are free to walk away and leave despite however they word it that they need to talk to you. If you are not detained, then the contact is consensual and you can terminate it at any time. There is no time limit to detainment, but it must only last as long as reasonable to complete their investigation. The purpose of detainment is to further their investigation. If they already had probable cause to arrest you, they would have already.
Which goes to the last point - don't say anything. Even to any innocent sounding questions, or questions posed in a way that answering them will relieve their suspicion of you. When you are questioned, they are fishing for anything that can support a charge. They are not looking to help you. Nothing that you say to the police is admissible in your defense. It can only be used to potentially incriminate you. Be clear when you are invoking your right to remain silent by stating it vocally. Just being silent or using body language is ambiguous and they can continue to question you if you do not clearly invoke your right. After invoking your right to remain silent they must cease questioning and any statements made after that are inadmissible.
If you're released after a detainment without any charge, it means they did not have enough on you to support a charge at the time. Unless you have reason to think that they will come across further incriminating evidence at a later date, you likely have no need to worry.
Detainment also requires RAS. It is wise to ask if you are actually being detained. If they are not detaining you, you are free to walk away and leave despite however they word it that they need to talk to you. If you are not detained, then the contact is consensual and you can terminate it at any time. There is no time limit to detainment, but it must only last as long as reasonable to complete their investigation. The purpose of detainment is to further their investigation. If they already had probable cause to arrest you, they would have already.
Which goes to the last point - don't say anything. Even to any innocent sounding questions, or questions posed in a way that answering them will relieve their suspicion of you. When you are questioned, they are fishing for anything that can support a charge. They are not looking to help you. Nothing that you say to the police is admissible in your defense. It can only be used to potentially incriminate you. Be clear when you are invoking your right to remain silent by stating it vocally. Just being silent or using body language is ambiguous and they can continue to question you if you do not clearly invoke your right. After invoking your right to remain silent they must cease questioning and any statements made after that are inadmissible.
If you're released after a detainment without any charge, it means they did not have enough on you to support a charge at the time. Unless you have reason to think that they will come across further incriminating evidence at a later date, you likely have no need to worry.
When searching for legal representation, it's essential to do thorough research to find someone who is experienced, trustworthy, and has a good track record in handling cases similar to yours. One way to ensure you're on the right track is by seeking recommendations from trusted sources, such as friends, family, or online reviews.
A great short book named "You Have the Right to Remain Innocent" by defense lawyer - James Duane is a must read in preparation for any interactions with cops. You can even find the audiobook on YouTube for free.
tldr: if truly detained, only state your name and that you want to speak to a lawyer. Do not state where you were coming from orr where you are going. Do not state what business you have there when the police stopped you, but also do not lie. As stated earlier, nothing you say will help you, only hurt you. Do not necessarily invoke the 5th as its protection has been weakened by the Supreme Court. READ THE BOOK.
tldr: if truly detained, only state your name and that you want to speak to a lawyer. Do not state where you were coming from orr where you are going. Do not state what business you have there when the police stopped you, but also do not lie. As stated earlier, nothing you say will help you, only hurt you. Do not necessarily invoke the 5th as its protection has been weakened by the Supreme Court. READ THE BOOK.
